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May 28, 2008
I wanna be the atheist …. being the Christian isn’t any fun.
May 28, 2008
AWESOME. Stumbled it!
May 29, 2008
This is great. I don’t think I’m cut out to be a Christian however.
May 29, 2008
Francis: that sounds like a good idea for an advertising slogan.
Jason: thanks.
Pat: trust me when I say that’s a good thing.
May 29, 2008
Being the Christain sucks… Why can’t I be someone cool, or at least someone that isn’t a crazy fairy praising lunatic…
May 29, 2008
Crap, I suck at this game. First question and I died. But the Atheist won, so it’s all good in the end.
May 29, 2008
Yay! Atheists Win, Atheists Win! USA! USA!! USA!! 1111
May 29, 2008
Retarded.
May 29, 2008
You forgot the tentacles.
May 29, 2008
"Knowledge", "Reason", and "Thought". versus the god-given gifts of "Faith", "Repetition", and "Proclaiming Religious Intolerance"
Looks like I’m playing the wrong side……
May 29, 2008
boring… you don’t have many options if you die after answering the first question with ‘No’. But hey, it’s a "Christian Simulator" and it’s close-minded, so I guess it simulates their crooked reality very well…
May 29, 2008
This gets my nomination as the dumbest thing on internet.
May 29, 2008
Don’t be ashamed. All are welcome here.
Yeah, funny that.
You clearly are new to these internets.
May 29, 2008
Not being familiar with the source, is this Poe’s in effect, or is this supposed to be making fun of just how stupid most theism really is?
Died at the first question because I answered it correctly…..heh
May 29, 2008
I want to be the atheist! Being the christian sucks!
May 29, 2008
This is very entertaining. I like winning by beating up atheists! The scenario was a bit too long. I don’t like to think. I like to beat up all those who disagree with me, especially the ones that want to "reason" with me! Ha! Once you captured the absolute truth (no evidence or reason, it just feels right), then what’s the point of arguing??!!!! There’s got to be something wrong with them atheists….
Though at times (of weakness), they seem to be having more fun by using powers of their brains, such as logic and inquiry. If you excuse me, I’ll go to flagellate myself, because I think the devil is trying to deceive me….
I rebuke theeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
May 29, 2008
Do I have to be the one to always call Poe’s Law on all of this nonsense? Well, in any case, I call Poe’s Law. If this was intended to be a satirical dig on credulous believers, then well done, however, if this really was intended seriously, then may the winds of ignorance sweep upon your fragile little minds and draw you into the realm of BS for the rest of your life. You’ll never know what clear thinking is, or reasoning — gaining comfort in having lied to yourself so completely. I guess some people are happy bathing in ignorance.
May 29, 2008
Had to stop at question #2 because no answer was right. I have witnessed cancer cures and miracles, and I am confident that a cure is forthcoming. I won’t stop praying for it just as I wouldn’t stop asking my Dad for a bicycle when I was a child. Why isn’t the cure here already? I don’t know. Faith is not magic my friend. Why does one person win the lottery twice in his lifetime but another person never wins? By the way, we are not all as you described. There are many levels of Christianity just as there are many levels of development in all things. All are not the same. Those who rant and rave without logic or intelligence are actually not following the teachings of Christ. "Study to show thyself approved unto God…" "Feed the poor, clothe the naked, visit the sick and imprisoned." "Pray without ceasing."
May 29, 2008
Dear Commenters and Potential Commenters who may be unclear as to whether this is satirical, pro-Christian, pro-Atheist, have something to do with Poe’s law, have nothing to do with Poe’s law, or something else entirely …
… you make me smile.
Whatever you do: don’t try and find out what this site is … about (possible clue).
No, no you haven’t.
Please look up statistical probability online.
May 29, 2008
I have been taken to some strange and wonderful places by PZ’s links. This is one of the stranger and mos’ wonderfulest. May I come back?
May 29, 2008
Bloglady, check the possible answers again. Based on what you’ve posted, I think "It’s all part of God’s plan" is your answer to question 2, and "I don’t know" is your answer to the follow-up question 3. I don’t know how you’ll answer question 4.
SPOILER: The winning strategy for the game is: "Ignore the question", "Yes", "Atheists are injecting cancer into the water supply", "Kick the atheist". (You get martryed, but the atheist winds up safely locked away in jail where decent people won’t have to listen to his nonsense any more.)
May 29, 2008
Prayer does work. It comforts the christian when he’s clueless. It’s an utterly selfish thing to do; that brilliantly has the excuse of being the opposite. Depending on your view, the answer will be yes or no. Yes, if it comforts you in any way to practice it. No, if you look at the external results.
BTW: My parents gave me my name. I stick with it out of honour to them; not because it fits.
May 29, 2008
Is the scientologist level available. I feel i could take the high ground on that one cos at least the bible doesn’t tell you to harassas critics cos they’re going to hell.
May 29, 2008
Pure genius!
I really relished the ‘evil smiling PZ’s old pixel craziness’ photo in one of the endings 🙂
Keep up the good work
May 29, 2008
Hey, you should have made a path where christian actually won but it would seem so ridiculously stupid that it could make a good laugh. I hate games where you’re bound to lose!
May 29, 2008
I’m an atheist, so I found this whole thing pretty embarrassing. Whoever wrote this has a pretty poor grasp of the Christian argument, and you know there’s something wrong when you can’t ridicule something as feeble as that without making yourself look even MORE foolish and ignorant.
May 29, 2008
You’re an atheist my ass, anon. Rather a closet christian, admit it.
May 29, 2008
Hah, somehow I expected that response. I recognise that I can’t prove it on teh intarwebs, but I am a genuine atheist; I just like to understand an argument before I refute it. The only thing that annoys me more than a stupid, unthinking Christian is a stupid, unthinking atheist.
After all, they have faith; what’s our excuse?
May 29, 2008
Anonymous, genuine atheists are friendly and helpful, and if they spotted misrepresentations of the Christian argument, they’d post an explanation about where the author went wrong. Complaining about mistakes without helping to fix them isn’t atheistic behavior. Complaining about mistakes without even saying what they are is, quite frankly, troll-like.
Now, obviously the game has a lot of humorous hyperbole, and some of the options are just silly. But I think the core arguments are sound. Is there some option that you think should be added? If you’ve got a suggestion, then maybe it’ll be added to a future version of the game!
May 29, 2008
Prayer *doesn’t* work! see
May 29, 2008
http colon slash slash whywontgodhealamputees dot com
May 29, 2008
chaos_engineer, point taken, although I can’t understand where you get the idea that all atheists are ‘friendly and helpful’; certainly, the tone of this page, while tongue-in-cheek, is suggestive of a certain level of contempt for religious people (something which I, even as an atheist, do not have).
As it happens, though, I do like to consider myself a nice sort of person so I accept the rebuke. You are right to point out that I did not explain what I see as the problems in the argument; I can attribute this neglect to a combination of (a) laziness and (b) a (clearly wrong) assumption that the flaws were self-evident.
I was, and still am, disinclined to write out a point-by-point analysis of the page (although with the length of time I’ve spent writing on the comments page, I certainly could have by now) but since your criticism was fair I’ll provide an example, being the ‘does prayer work?’ question. It failed right from the outset, by treating prayer as some sort of magic spell, whereby you entreat God to do something and he does it (or not, as the case may be). Anyone, I would have thought, would know intuitively that that is not the point of prayer at all, or else just the fact that ‘good things happen to bad people’ would be an irrefutable disproof of God’s existence. The game presents an idea of prayer that is not accepted by mainstream Christianity (whatever that is), and asserts intellectual superiority when it is shown to be flawed.
Even if we think of prayer in this way, however (I notice at least one commenter does indeed pray for cancer’s end, so maybe I have underestimated the scope of prayer), there is the question of the so-called ‘Divine Plan’, which the game touches upon. This is the point at which the game really derails, however. First, it attempts to compare the acts of an autonomous human being (i.e. a crucifix stabbing) to genuine ‘acts of God’ (i.e. cancer) by asking whether aforementioned stabbing features in God’s plan, even though free will is a well-established aspect of Christian theology. Then, this baffling oversight leads into a bizarre inquiry into who is ‘deciding’ what is in God’s plan and what isn’t. This is not going to make any sense to a Christian, who works on the assumptions that (a) God is Good and (b) God is Powerful, and who therefore can’t help but percieve any bad (God-caused) thing that happens as part of a greater good. No one authority is officially stating ‘cancer is part of the plan’, because just the very fact that it’s happening (and isn’t attributable to man) means that it is.
I hope that made some sense; I sort of lost myself there because I re-write sentences constantly and I end up losing focus on the meaning. The thing is, almost everything in there was riddled with these sorts of problems and these, coupled with the condescending manner in which they were presented, suitably inflamed me to the point where the expediency and forcefulness of my criticism became greater priorities to me than its thoroughness or detail.
May 29, 2008
We need some sort of a counter-Poe’s law for all the, pardon me, clueless eedjits who always pop anywhere people employ sarcasm with their twaddle about them possibly being creationists. D*mn it, you guys are so humor-deficient it’s painful to watch.
Anyway, sorry about flaming, had to get that off my chest.
Oh, and Anonymous — have you ever heard of an artistic license? You are analyzing this way too seriously. Do you need a great big, flashing "this is a joke, not a serious argument" banner to get it? Also, I laugh at your claims of being nicer than the author of the game. Not very humble, are we?
P.S. What is wrong with the commenting system here? It keeps saying "That comment seems a little short. Probably not worth adding it.", although I have over 100 words.
Edit: the system is broken alright. I had to remove the proper Unicode em dash to get this to show up.
May 30, 2008
Anontmous: You inadvertantly gave yourself away with that insane and obvious comment: "After all they have faith; what’s our excuse?" You are a phony creep, and got a lot of freaking nerve calling yourself an atheist! Don’t demean what atheism stands for by your phony prattle and just come out and admit that you are a demented religionist posing as a person of sound mind. To reiterate: my ass, you are no atheist. Stop pretending to be like your betters and stick to your insane and demented superstitious crap.
May 30, 2008
Anonymous, the question "does prayer work?" has nothing to do with how the believer knows/feels/thinks it should actually work
If you or "the average christian" thinks it works within god’s plan on a spiritual non interventionist level or if it really works on a first come first serve basis does not matter, either it works or it does not.
The follow up question does try to define how prayer works and gives an opening for it working in other ways.
And in my immediate family I have devout catholics who will refrain from certain things (drinking, smoking…) because other family members got better after they prayed to their god and said that they would not do those things anymore if god made them better, to them it is crystal clear that that prayer really really worked (remembering the hits, not seeing the medical care, …)
It is however pretty strange that a self confessed atheist would actually write "genuine ‘acts of God’" ….
May 30, 2008
Anonymous: Get over yourself already, it is meant just as a bit of lighthearted amusement, not theology 101.
May 30, 2008
where’s the agnositic who’s too shit scared to take a stand either way? 😉
May 30, 2008
I smite all of thee.
May 30, 2008
Sorry I don’t have time to read everything on your site to see what it’s ALL about. However, you’re obviously articulate, creative and uh, interesting, so I’ll certainly keep reading as time allows.
Why do call me a liar? Call it what you will – divine intervention, scientifically unexplainable events, or miracles – and occasionally, an error in the first place, miracles happen. I have no need to convince you, I am just responding because no one likes to be called a liar.
Why is it that miracles don’t make the news?
Oh well, that’s another topic entirely.
As for statistical probability, I don’t think that would explain the nearly impossible event of a major lottery winner cashing in a second time (Eugene Angelo, MSNBC.com).
May 30, 2008
Crispy Christ on a cracker I thought I was gonna make it after I survived being crucified. I thought God was really turning me into a ninja-like ass-kicking Christian for a minute, oh well.
Don’t know why he was such a bitter atheist. I mean really, who goes and crucifies people? Seemed more like a :a) satanist, or b) an atheist who needs to get laid.
Cute game though.
May 31, 2008
Nobody called you a liar. You’re seeing something that isn’t there. I said you were wrong but at no point accused you of outright lying.
You couldn’t be more wrong if you tried. This is exactly what statistical probability explains. Let me try to explain:
Persons A, B, and C enter a lottery where the chances of either of them winning in a given week is 1 in a million.
Scenario 1. On the first week Person A wins. Nothing amazing here. There was a chance it would happen and it did.
In week 2 Person A wins again. What are the incredible odds of person A winning in week 2? 1 in a million, the same as in week 1. Why? Because winning in a second week is not affected by winning in a first. There’s no relationship at all. There is nothing affecting the odds based on previously winning or not.
Now, you might think: ah, but what are the odds of Person A winning in week 1 and week 2? Let’s call that 1 in a million million. Big odds. Must be a miracle? No. Let’s carry on …
Scenario 2. In week 1 Person B wins. Now, in week 2 Person C wins. The odds of each person winning in each individual week is 1 in a million. We’ve seen that. But what are the odds that Person B would win in week 1 and Person C would win in week 2? Why that’s 1 in a million million! Same odds as our apparent miracle and yet nobody cares? Why?
Here’s why. In scenario 1 it looks special. Humans see patterns and they think "ooh, mystical force at work!". But despite the looks it’s just random chance and the same chance as two different specific people winning in each week as in Scenario 2.
Another quick example. Lottery numbers are drawn and come up with:
2,17,32,5,19,6
Big deal, right?
Now they’re drawn again and they come up with:
1,2,3,4,5,6
Wow! Must be God! Or is it?
Do you want the know what the odds of the second set of numbers being drawn are?
Exactly the same as the first set. Exactly the same. Not slightly less chance. Exactly the same. But the second set gets people talking because … it looks special.
But it’s not special at all. The human brain is great at identifying patterns and assigning beliefs and symbols to them and thoughts around them. It’s just that once you actually know what’s going on to create the pattern you can take away the belief and replace it with understanding.
In the same way when you see a "miracle" you’re assigning a mystical solution to something you just don’t understand but have identified a pattern with. Someone prayed, someone got better – cause and effect: it’s a miracle. Sure, unless you check and see that the "miracle" coincided with a new batch of drugs, an environmental change, etc. It could be anything. You have to know what went on. You can’t take other people’s words for it either.
To sum up:
I’ve demonstrated that your miracles of cures and lottery winnings can be explained using mathematics, statistics, and an understanding of pattern recognition in the human brain.
You will probably still maintain that an invisible spirit, apparently benevolent, goes around altering lottery balls to favour one man somewhere while letting millions of children die around the world in poverty, war, and disease.
Doesn’t that strike you as even the slightest bit absurd? Just a smidgeon?
Anyway …
Awesome!
June 1, 2008
This is awesome, you creative sod.
Creative not creationist.
June 1, 2008
This is a fine game, but what of Agnostics, or for that matter, Nihilists?
June 1, 2008
Dale, .45: Agnostics were defeated in round 1 by the Freemasons. Arguments weren’t the deciding factor, though. The masons knew people who knew people and, well, things were arranged and …
Claire: Thankyou.
June 1, 2008
No, no no. I will NOT admit to hitting the back button to change my answers.
June 1, 2008
Darn – skewered!
Kinda hard to play a game between two crazies, anyway.
June 3, 2008
I hate these games (in a
June 4, 2008
Thanks for the statistical info on lotteries, it was quite interesting. Point taken. However, I never claimed that the man who won twice experienced a miracle. I was simply comparing two rare events, a two time lottery winner with an alleged miracle – neither of which can be explained with a sound scientific explanation other than applying statistical odds (which doesn’t explain the good luck of one fellow as opposed to another’s luck), as you so aptly proved.
June 4, 2008
Human beings developed their ability for abstract thought as a matter of survival. (The caveman understands that the bison he draws on the wall of the cave represents the actual bison in the field.) Because humans are not as strong as other predators, abstract thought provided them with the edge needed to organize and survive. The same need, the need not to die, begot us our sense of agency. (It may only be the wind that rustles the leaves of the tree, but it’s better for survival to assume that it was a tiger.) As a matter of fact, evolution has produced a hyper-developed sense of agency in humans to ensure survival in some really harsh environments. Our sense of agency is so strong that if you reread the previous sentence you might notice that while writing it, I was subconsciously verging on insinuating that evolution itself is an agent. (This is nonsense, of course. Nature has no agency.) Indeed, the above example of almost ascribing agency to evolution is a microcosm of the process of how we arrived at the idea of deities who are actively involved in our lives. The combination of agency with abstract thought produces something unique to homo-sapiens. (It would be safe to say that a sense of agency preceded the capacity for abstract thought. After all, animals have the former but not the latter. But it is of no relevance which came first. What matters is what happens when you combine the two.) Abstract thought PLUS sense of agency = invention of divinity. Life made god, not the other way around.
Bloglady you are ignoring Marks central point: you are seeing a pattern and ascribing agency where there is none. Just because someTHING happened does not mean that someONE made it happen. Cause and affect do not = agency.
June 4, 2008
Bloglady: you may be able to sell Frustration online. Have you considered this as a way to supplement your income?
neither of which can be explained with a sound scientific explanation other than applying statistical odds
This makes no sense. You’re saying "neither of these things can be explained scientifically, except for the one that can be explained scientifically". Or: "I have four arms, except for the two that aren’t arms at all and are, in fact, legs, but other than that, yes, I definitely am a four-legged person only without four legs".
which doesn’t explain the good luck of one fellow as opposed to another’s luck
Argggghhhhh! Yes it does. It does explain. It explains it through science. Probability. Statistics. Explanation. It explains luck as being the result of statistical probability uninfluenced by anything other than science. The way lottery balls are drawn could be explained and predicted with total accuracy if you could model everything involved: imperfections on the balls, weight, air density, humidity, gravitational force. Science has answers; not all of them just yet, but it’s working on it. Religion has no answers, is stagnant, and happy to remain that way. Religion’s answer of "God" could equally be "Frog". In fact, replace God with Frog everywhere in the Bible and it probably still makes as much sense and is just as completely untestable, unproveable, and, sadly, still believable by those who just won’t stop and think about things for a moment.
Incidentally, you never answered my question: